Kadress Pillay, former minister of education, gives his viewpoints on the new measures introduced by the government in the education sector, before moving to the inevitable topic of private tuition...
■ As a former Minister of Education, what do you think about what the budget has outlined with regard to education?
I totally agree with what the minister said. These are measures which we have to appreciate. However, for me, we are not attending to the fundamental weaknesses of our system.
■ What are the fundamental weaknesses?
We have got education that is a rat race. We have a system which does not give equality of opportunity to everybody. It’s difficult for kids from an underclass background to run in the race. We have a system that seeks to isolate and concentrate on the future elites of the country. What happens to the rest is not of great concern. That is my main worry.
■ The intention behind the summer school is to help those who need further help. How does that bother you?
What does bother me is that we seem to be concentrating on palliative measures rather than trying to correct something that is fundamentally fl awed. It’s an objection of principle. You get a child from a ZEP school and bring a child from say Rose-Hill RCA what’s going to happen? It’s going to bring out more complexes in the mind of the child.
■...but these measures are not meant for the RCA kid. It’s for schools with a failure rate of over 50%, so it’s almost by definition for the ZEP schools.
Okay. I got this wrong. I thought it would bring together kids from different educational backgrounds. If that’s the case it’s mostly the ZEP schools. Now we need to consider the quality of the teachers. I was watching CNN the other day and Fareed Zakaria was interviewing Bill Gates and was talking about the billions he was donating for education. He was asked what the best quality of a teacher would be and Gates replied ‘leadership’. You have to have that. You have to lead kids. Do we have the kind of teachers who are interested in leading instead of concentrating on a certain logic?
■ The logic of private tuition?
Certainly.
■ But if they were paid enough?
Is money such an incentive?
■ Isn’t that why many of them are in the private tuition business in the first place?
Yes. But if you are going to give them a fixed amount and you are going to control what they are doing. I’m not too sure that would work.
■ Vasant Bunwaree has been having a tug of war with the teachers’ unions and he has said that he wants to abolish private tuition as from standard IV. Isn’t that what you tried to do too?
I did. I knew that we couldn’t change a system overnight. However, as a matter of principle, if the government is against private tuition, you cannot tolerate giving your own school facilities for it.
■ But what happened then was that it shifted to neighbourhood garages…
Not at all. I prepared a paper outlining parameters like the conditions for the registering of teachers. Bunwaree is doing exactly what I wanted to do: phase out private tuition. Because I know and you know that it doesn’t bring much to the average kid.
■ So you are one of those saying that the only motivation behind it is money in the pockets of teachers?
Yes. I have to be frank about this. There are good teachers who want to commit their time and motivation to help kids in a general way, but those who give private tuition are motivated by money only. I didn’t say that we need to phase out private tuition completely but that we need to have clear parameters.
■ Why aren’t you keen to phase it out?
Parents must have a choice…
■…do the kids have a choice?
Unfortunately they do not. Parents think that the kids will learn something extra if they pay for it. There are parents who work and don’t have time to care for the kids so would much rather have the kids under the care of a teacher in private tuition than at home. Those are the main reasons. Give parents a choice but under conditions that are approved by the government. Such as the teachers who are registered, the number of students, there must be interaction between the child and the schools, reports made on the progress of the child in private tuition and weaknesses coming out at private tuition. That could lead to a sort of dialectic between the schools and private tuition.
■ How do you regulate what a teacher does in his own free time?
We have some sort of regulation for doctors in private practice don’t we? Why can’t we have some sort of practice framework for private tuition?
■ But suppose you have this framework and the teacher does not respect the parameters you have imposed on him, will you be able to bar him from doing what he wants in his free time?
As a democrat I would say no. But we want to steer a middle course. We want to give them some leeway and a chance to make extra money but we want to know what is happening to our kids. It is the responsibility of the government to have a policy.
■ But a policy can only work if sanctions can be applied.
I think some of the teachers – something like 20% of teachers- are giving private tuition – you should be able to come to some sort of understanding. I don’t know if this can be done as an administrative or legal matter. But there can be some sort of arrangement, teachers are mostly decent people. When I joined education I was told that education would grow on you and it did. And teachers are civilised.
■ Do you find the language used by the unions civilised?
To be blunt: no. Union guys tend to put themselves on the defensive all the time portraying themselves as victims. They have to be sensitive and willing to sit down and sort things out. So long as we don’t, it’s going to be very difficult to move forward.
■ What do you think of the enhancement programme?
The spirit of it is good but my information is that it is not working due to a combination of factors. The main one being the lack of motivation of teachers – I’m a great believer in humanities, arts and extra curricular activities. The enhancement programme has a bit of that, but the teachers see it as a kind of punishment.
■ And a way of preventing them from giving tuition?
Precisely. It’s the wrong attitude. But that has been the attitude of teachers’ representatives for the past 50 years. It has not changed since the days of Kher Jagatsing when there was a constant struggle. This will not change. I think it’s a culturally induced attitude. It’s always the same language, same attitude. And now Vinod Seegum is speaking the same language and adopting the same attitude and has the same reactions. Somewhere they have to change.
■ But aren’t our kids paying for this?
They are.
■ But why aren’t parents giving the minister the support that he needs?
Because those who have a say in the matter, benefit from the system. They don’t want to change it.
■ They benefit in what way?
Most of them have been to colleges such as Queen Elizabeth College and they want their kids to go there. They want their grandchildren to go there. The system is perpetuating itself. This has to change. You have to give a chance to others.
■ What do you think of the idea of a hot meal?
It depends on the conditions in which it is provided. I don’t think we should say no to that idea. It’s a good beginning I hope it is extended to other kids as well. When it comes to food, I don’t think we should discriminate between rich kids and poor kids.
■ You mean the taxpayer should pay to give rich kids food that they perhaps put in the bin?
We have to have some kind of arrangement. I have always proposed a school provident fund which is voluntary. I’m sure parents who have the means will contribute. And let it be voluntary. If you don’t want to pay, you don’t. Mauritians are generous. If they know that by paying, they are indirectly contributing to some poor kid’s welfare, I think they would. You have to try it on a pilot basis in one or two schools and see how it works. It might take time but you have to start somewhere. Let parents come in and let’s appeal to their generosity.
■ To sum up, your reaction to the measures announced in the budget regarding education is not entirely positive, is it?
It depends on how you look at these measures. If you look at them as ways and means to upgrade the quality of our present education, they are very good. As far as the fundamentals of the system are concerned, I am still in disagreement. The CPE has to go.
■ But do you think that if the CPE goes, private tuition will go away too?
No, but we will be able to impose conditions e.g limiting the number of students. If you are going to take ten kids and give them personal attention that you can’t give in class, then I see the logic.
■ But what do you do with the other kids?
If you want to do it, then you have to find ways and means of giving all the kids individual attention. 40 students in a class is not private tuition. What teacher can manage 40 students? What the teacher does is just a repetition of what was done in school earlier. We need to limit the harm of private tuition through a clear system of reporting and a follow up of what goes on in private tuition. You put some sense in it. Right now it is a jungle.
■ A lot of people complain about the quality of the education our kids receive. Do you share their worry or you are satisfied with the situation?
At the moment, the focus is on filling the brain. I have told to countless parents: give your kids a sense of honour and character and then an education. Our system does not provide for that.
■ Does that mean that our system produces kids who are devoid of intelligence? Are they just rote-learners?
Let me ask you a question. You’ve seen laureates year after year. How many of them have become great leaders? Our problem in Mauritius is institutional leadership.
■ But some of our people are constantly being snatched away by other countries. Does that still mean that they are no good?
They are good academically. They are good in brain capacity but when it comes to personality and character, those who are good are not many. Even when they are given opportunities in other countries, they are still playing second fiddle there. Even me with my big mouth, they wouldn’t allow me to be on top. Those who go there are intent on getting the money and a big car, a house in Surrey and all, but they will never be on top. I think the problem is character. CPE education helps us make a living but not a life. Education allowed me to make a living, but my father made a man out of me.
■ What should be done to the system to make the leaders you want to see?
Remove the CPE rat race. Let them breathe. Open up the curriculum. Why do we have a closed curriculum? Because in a race you can’t have too many subjects. Teach our kids to sing and dance and play music and teach them English and French, teach them maths, science, but let them bloom. They are not blooming. Only those from privileged families are.
■ How do they manage to bloom?
Educated parents manage to make their children bloom.
■ So what are you complaining about?
I am not complaining. It’s the same system but I protected my children from it. Private tuition limited to the subjects in which they were trailing. But not all parents are like that. One day a good friend of mine called me and said, “My daughter wants to be a national laureate.” I asked him, “How old is your daughter?” He said, “Two years old.” So I told him, look – go and buy her a doll and we’ll see about the rest later!
Source: L'Express
Touria PRAYAG
Touria PRAYAG
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